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Hallo!

 

Tiagra fra Tyskland har en C304 han holder på å bygge om til bobil, inkludert motorbytte og karosseribytte. Han ville også bytte til skivebremser. Etter å ha sett på de tilgjengelige konverteringssetta mente han at ingen var grove nok til å takle kombinasjonen høy vekt og store hjul på C304-prosjektet hans. Derfor har han laga sitt eget konverteringssett som han etter hvert skal produsere for salg. På Facebook-gruppa for C300-serien har han akkurat presentert prototypen. Bildene har jeg kopiert hit:

 

post-6519-0-99480200-1436031654_thumb.jpg

 

post-6519-0-26241400-1436031692_thumb.jpg

 

post-6519-0-01521800-1436031718_thumb.jpg

 

post-6519-0-06289700-1436031858_thumb.jpg

 

post-6519-0-54262400-1436032313_thumb.jpg

 

post-6519-0-39199200-1436032458_thumb.jpg

 

post-6519-0-69796600-1436033049_thumb.jpg

 

 

Følgende tekst er kopiert fra Facebook. Navna er anonymisert:

 

 

Tiagra: This is the prototype, let's finish it and convert a complete test vehicle, then we'll talk about series production wink emoticon Will post details on that once we are ready to come forward with this. Needs some more talk within the project team and more validation and testing on our side aswell...

 

Layout initially planned will be like pinzgauer 718... 2 calipers per wheel on the front and one caliper each rear axle.

Question: Will it be available for the standard rims?

Tiagra: No way. You would need to manufacture some adaptor if you wanted to use stock rims. This conversion is very low offset, so you can easily use 40-50mm for some PCD adaptor if you like and use standard Volvo rims. However, _I_ will not engage in such adaptors, have enough problems of my own with tiger2.0 project grin emoticon

 

The rim also needs an inner diamater of ~395mm to clear the calipers and mounting bolts. Looking at the stock wheel drawing, I'd seriously doubt that would fit.....

Question: OK, new question: Why a five bolt pattern if you still have to make custom wheel? Wouldn't it be better to use a known six bolt pattern? Or is the five bolt pattern you have chosen a known one, only that you have to make special rims to get the correct offset?

Tiagra: Yes is a known pattern, of course - we didn't invent a new PCD! Mercedes, Porsche, Audi and VW are using it in series production vehicles

Question: Looks heavy

Tiagra: All in all probably not much different than stock, but I haven't had the chance to properly weigh a stock brake, yet.

 

But yes, this thing is calculated to stop 4t trucks... not 1400kg trophy cars, lik most other disc brake conversions on the market.

Question: Looks great any more info on parts used

Tiagra: Might disclose in the future, for now want to bring the project to an end first. Details are: PCD5x130, 330x30 disc, 4-pot Brembo caliper, custom hub, custom caliper mount bracket and soon a custom 9x17 steel wheel to fit all that.

Question: Cannot use 16" rims? (and I don't mean original Volvo rims)

Tiagra: Might be able, don't know for sure - depends on the form of the hoop. I personally want to go 37x12.5R17, so that's where I am headed. There are no large street usable tires in 16", only crazy offroad stuff not suitable for traveling

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Har följt han en tid på FB gruppen,

Jag tror han kommer kunna sälja de kitten sen, om jag fattat rätt

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Thanx, Kristian ;)

 

Please give me some more time to finalise this project - want to make sure everything really works as intended and convert a complete test truck to validate the system. Afterwards we'll think about series production. We're now 1.5 years into tis project, so I guess we're not in a really hurry now anymore.... ;))

 

Ciao,

 

.martin

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It looks very nice. Is there the option to have 2 calipers per side on the front axle, and thus retain the dual brake circuit?

 

Oh yes i see there is ;)

 

The hole in the hub is for CTIS?

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Yes, absolutely, that's what has been designed into the system from day 1.

 

Front would be similar to this (slightly tilted in this image):

 

ZZ76EAAD1B.jpg

 

The brake circuit layout of the Volvo would make it nessecary to introduce one (4x4) or two (6x6) pressure reduction valves into the rear brake line(s) to prevent overbraking of the rear axles, but that should be the simplest thing to do. Also that will allow you to disable to automatic engagement of 4wd/6wd on harder braking, thus allow more maneuverbility around tight corners downhill, especially on tar - one more reason for me to go away from stock drum brake system.

 

The valve should be dimensioned close to this I think:

ZZ1BA6E599.jpg

 

The Pinzgauer 716/718 employs the H-layout, which would save you one reduction valve on the 6x6. The caliper layout would be the same on the volvo, though:

 

716/4x4 layout:

ZZ3B8A0A39.jpg

 

718/6x6 layout:

ZZ16456CCF.jpg

 

The main brake cylinder of 28,56mm is believed to be sufficient according to my calculations so it should stay stock. Until I haven't verified this myself on a complete 6x6 conversion with my system, I won't bet on that, though. On a 4x4 I am 99% sure it will be enough volume-wise.

 

.martin

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Very nice. The best system i have seen to date (and i researched many). I will watch this with interest, and you can add me to your first customer list when its ready ;)

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;)) thanx... We are aiming at a complete prototype vehicle asap to validate all concerns. Furthermore the wheels need to get sorted out and then there is the CTIS... which has also been designed into the system as an addon feature. Right now we're in the process of getting the machinery and tolerances properly set up and checked, so that we are able to move forward with production according to the same standards as series production would go on.

 

Once the vehicle is up and running, we'll report back with the results ;)

 

Thanx,

 

.martin

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Stupid question but.. What is the main reason for converting to disc brakes ?

 

(Yes I imagine there will be more braking force from disc brakes but there seems to be no problem of lifting the rear wheels of a c303 if You make an emergency stop with standard original volvo drum brakes)

As I see it the drum brakes  works pretty fine and are dirt cheap if you buy Land Rover brake bands or cylinders ( yes, they are more or less the same as on the C30x, just one hole to be driller in the front brake bands)

 

What about spare parts from brembo or similar disc brake pads or discs of you are stuck in the middle of africa or south america? Land rover parts should be pretty obtainable anywere in the world? Basicly the brake bands or the cylinders is the only thing that can break, the drums themselves seems to last a long time. Brake discs seems to rust or warp and the callipers tends to rust and get stuck , at least on my "daily driver" cars over the years....

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We do it just for the fun :P

 

Ok this has been discussed in length elsewhere, so I'll keep it short:

 

* you do NOT nessecarily gain more brake force, you gain however stability in terms of repeated braking under temperature

 

* drum brakes full of mud and dirt are crap - they don't brake at all and additionally suffer damage unless you immediately open them for cleaning

 

* I personally cannot live with automatic 4wd/6wd engagement, which is needed with stock brakes as the front drums cannot cope with 7o-80% brake force themselves. Since my application involves a lot of tar, this is not what I need. To brske up this system, you need capable AND temperature stable brakes in the front.

 

* serviceability around the world is not a problem, i have disc brakes on other travel vehicles and never serviced them. Additionally you can't find Landrover everywhere, but toyota - so that argument might count in SOME parts of the world, but most certainly not in most. Additionally the conversation above employs 8 calipers of the same kind, and 6 discs of the same kind (on a 6x6). If i need a spare to reach whatever civilized town, i will just take one from my rear axles, as it's all the same - for a reason :)

 

* i could go on and on, but need to sleep. Afterall this is a project that is supposed to lead to a vehicle close to my dreams, and not a OEM development project for military applications, so not everything needs to be most economical, it needs to be what I like the mist, what I tjink is technically the most useful etc. A stock volvo is the result of a military development process under political guidelines - that almost never leads to something that is technically pleasing all the way :)

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Totally agree.

Plus drums seem to need constant adjustment to keep them balanced. Ok that could be cured by an overhaul, but i would rather spend the money converting for the above reasons.

 

Tiagra - would you be open to supplying a partial kit when you do? E.g i buy the brackets from you, you give the hub machining drawings?

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Hiya hoss,

 

a major update, yes ;)

 

Firstly: We were ready to make a move on the first conversion and prototype brackets when we found out, that Brembo has seized production if THIS caliper and there is no stock whatsover. After a lot of frustration we started looking for alternatives only to find out that 500+VAT per caliper is the cheapest we could find. In the end we decided to go back and try a supplier we had initially planned for anyway, but which was dumped because of communication problems. So yet again we visited these guys and are now hopeful that it will work out this time.

 

Meanwhile the second hub prototype with proper spline tolerances has been manufactured and I will get it TOMORROW.

 

Now waiting for CAD data of the caliper, then we'll go ahead and get a prototype bracket. Once that fits, we'll order 8 caliprs, 6 hubs and 8 wheels for the first complete conversion, which will take place in Romania ;) Jan and I will hopefully fly there and we'll test the conversion on/with Darius' 6x6.

 

Once that properly works, we will supply you guys with pictures and stuff to offer taking part in the first build group.

 

We will not supply anyone with drawings of any kind, but we are happy to supply you with kits (we have been working for 1.5 years to pull this thing of, so you might understand that we'll not just hand out all our results). I am afraid though, that only complete kits will make sense, meaning full set of hubs, brackets and calipers and probably wheels, too. Though anyone can have his own wheels modified or built according to the rules in his country, our wheels are legalizable with german TÃœV, which makes them somewhat expensive. If you don't want or need that, feel free to get your own wheels made.

 

As of now the first build group consists of 5 6x6 Volvos and we are open for more entries. All entries will have to be PREpaid, because that's what we will have to pay your kits of. Once this group is closed, we will collect orders again in the next build group until it makes sense - price wise. 3-5 cars are desireably to get decent pricing.

 

Please don't ask for specific pricing just yet, let us first get this whoe thing straight, then we will see how far we can get to help everyone else get some nice brakes. One thing is very clear though: This setup has been designed to be as nice as can be, especially for heavy expedition vehicles. That of course contradicts with "as cheap as can be" ;)

 

If everything works out, this should be the most decent setup there is. Should.

 

Let's see what surprises we'll have next...........

 

Ciao,

 

.martin

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Quick follow up: 2nd prototype hub has arrived and the spline is now PURRRFECT. One thing we can finally strike of the list...

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Gday,

I just stumbled across this thread and wanted to say nice work and register my interest, this disc brake conversion is looking better than many others I've looked at. I'll be following your progress...Cheer's

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Väldigt fint system... Men varför använda 5-bult... Det finns ju hur mycket japs fälgar somhelst mycket förmånligare, med t.ex. Beadlocks och sånt godis färdigt byggt. Om jag konverterade till skivbromsar så skulle jag nog använda mig av toyotas 6 bult.

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Quick follow up: 2nd prototype hub has arrived and the spline is now PURRRFECT. One thing we can finally strike of the list...

Any updates?

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Well... yes.

 

Firstly, few things have changed as mentioned in the last post. New calipers, new adapter. CAD data finally did arrive, all positions redesigned, mounting bracket is now universal fit for left/right and both sides of the axle. That is good news, because we now require only a single fully symmetric bracket.

 

Prototype is done and will probably arrive here by the end of next week or so. Looks like this (color of series production part will vary!):

 

ZZ2D0ED789.jpg

 

The new caliper layout is a true 180° positioning, just like on the Pinzgauer 716/718, which i personally like better than the old design:

 

ZZ0666A38E.jpg

 

All calipers will be black matte with yellow laser engraving, at least that's what we ordered. ALl calipers for the first 6x6 conversion have been ordered 8 weeks ago and were due to arrive this week - they didn't. Will check on them next week. Should be here soon.

 

Next up: Wheel. Manufacturer could not properly clear calipers without fucking up the design too much, so we decided to invest in new pressing tools for the center disc. More money, more time. Anyway, they are on it, final design proof is all we are waiting for, then we'll get the wheels for the aforementioned first 6x6 conversion. Should happen any time soon.

 

Final design should look something like that:

 

ZZ2261835C.jpg

 

Additionally there have been numerous ideas as to how to realize the CTIS and we have come up with a promsiing solution which we will implement on the first test vehicle. I have designed a CTIS guard around it aswell and I think this is close to how we will end up:

 

ZZ7F33A460.jpg

 

And last but not least: Hubs have also undergone a few modifications aftr the second prototype and the first 6 are off into production. CTIS stuff added, disk and wheel seat changed, mounting bolt for disc added, wheel bearing seating slightly changed for the type of bearings we can buy nowadays. Bad new: Forgery that was supposed to deliver forged raw hubs has closed down, so a new one has to be found. Waiting for confirmation on that. I guess manufacturing including inductive heat tretment of sealing surfaces and recitifcation of the splines will take 3-4 weeks.

 

ZZ4FFA1EDC.jpg

 

So even if on could think we have lost it all... we're still on it, edging closer to actually having a full set of series production components for the first 6x6 conversion. We will use this to validate the overall setup to see what else we need to make this a nice kit.

 

Final notice: Have been in contact with German company TIBUS. They have apparently setup a deal on their own Hutchinson like 8x16 beadlock wheel for much less money. We have exchanged a few CAD data and it appears, that THIS wheel might even fit onto our brake conversion. So there could be the possibility to use 16" tires even with our large 330mm disc setup. Final confirmation only when we have the full setup in flesh and Tibus actually has a wheel at hand for testing.

 

So far so good ;)

 

.martin

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Väldigt fint system... Men varför använda 5-bult... Det finns ju hur mycket japs fälgar somhelst mycket förmånligare, med t.ex. Beadlocks och sånt godis färdigt byggt. Om jag konverterade till skivbromsar så skulle jag nog använda mig av toyotas 6 bult.

 

Easy answer: There is no convincing disc on the market. Simple as that ;) But other people find other things convincing, that's why there are other converisons out there and that's why we set out to build yet another one - one, that is convincing ;)

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Not much... except:

 

The new wheel has arrived for testing, it is came out beautiful..

ZZ2BEEE261.jpg

 

And it does fit over the brake as intended, so the wheel design is finally fix.

ZZ34CBF971.jpg

 

Here is a quick test fit on a front portal aswell, to show clearance on the inner edge.

ZZ4999DDAF.jpg

 

CTIS related stuff still in production. 8 more wheels for the first test conversion have also arrived. 6 more hubs and 8 caliper brackets are in production aswell, CTIS still missing, new brake lines still missing. First 6x6 conversion will take place in the first week of May in Romania. So stay tuned.

 

Rough calculation for prices has also been done and goes as follows:

 

EDIT: Full kits and bare bone kits now available (07/16): http://shop.tigerexped.de/Specials

 

New stainless steel braided brake lines, CTIS stuff and other small parts tbd. All numbers in EUROs. Errors not impossible ;)

 

There you have it!

 

.martin

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As promised, first conversion DONE in Romania. CTIS not finished, haven't finally decided on a few details. Overall brake design validated, so after sorting out a few bugs, we might actually be able to go into series production! All kit will ONLY be made to order, we have no funds to stock this stuff ;) Anyway, will get back once we are all set.

 

In the meantime:

 

Enjoy..

 

.martin

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Congratulations on what looks like a really well engineered system! The new hubs look like the wheel nuts screw into them rather than using studs, is this correct?

Nick

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Thanx, Nick. Well these are not nuts bolting into the hub, but yes... It is unlike a stock Volvo hub, where you would have studs sticking out the hub.

 

I personally also wanted to go with studs, but in the end a friend of mine has convinced me to go the other route. Thinking about it, it makes more sense. You have a 60+kg wheel in you hands, needing to fiddle it over the studs. What happens 99% of the time? Right, you hit the studs 10 times before you manage to put the wheel on. Somehow just impractical and technically not better, so the decision was made for bolts. This way the only thing you need to fit is the hub centering, then you have all the time in the world to acutally mount the wheel ;)

 

.martin

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